We had some great discussion on Baptism and covered a lot of ground. I did forget to mention that if you would like to be baptized or talk about the issue more, please email me directly at kinkeadmm@sbcglobal.net I look forward to helping you on your faith journey and discussion about what God has to say to us on this, and any other topic.
A additional thought...as we ended class we were discussing if baptism was connected to salvation. Remember the process of converting to Judaism both concluded and began the process of being Jewish...as the convert washed (baptized) himself of his old ways he finished the process, and began the life commitment of being Jewish. In our Christian conversion we confess with our mouth, and then are obedient to what Jesus asked us to do and we are (baptized) washed of our old life and identified with Jesus death, burial, and resurrection...and then we begin our life of commitment of being Christian. (Christ-like)
The two are meant to be inter-connected...like marriage, two of you agree to get married and make the commitment to each other. You then have the public ceremony that lets everyone know of your desire for the rest of your lives. In baptism you are forgiven by the confession of your mouth, and then publicly begin your life as a Christian. The thief who hung on the cross and confessed to Jesus, was told by Jesus, "this day you will be with me in paradise." There was no chance to baptize him, and yet Jesus said he would be with him. He had no life to live beyond that moment.
Now lets finish the lesson and I would love your feedback... What are the fears that the church tries to address in it's own versions of what is necessary, or when, or how someone is baptized.
1) Infants: People understood that we are all born with a sinful nature, and yet are fearful that their infant will die before reaching an age that they can accept Jesus forgiveness for their sins, thus we get a (church) understanding that we can baptize a child and in some way hold on to their salvation until they accept it for themselves. ( I come from a United Methodist background and can address that churches ideas if you come from that background) . We know that salvation is individual and something that each person has to decide for themselves. So we must acknowledge that we are under the authority of Scripture, and not under the authority of a church doctrine. Thus, this church idea is not based in Scripture, and meant to give parents a comfortable answer, at the cost of also giving a false sense of salvation.
2) Time between accepting Jesus and being baptized: Some of us have had people in our lives who were baptized as infants, as they got older decided to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior,and then wanted to accept the baptism that was done on their behalf when they were first born. Or maybe made a decision at a young age and never were baptized for one reason or another. Now when they ask " Am I saved if I have asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins, and I have accepted Him as my Lord and Savior?" We find ourselves in uncomfortable land....because there is so much in Scripture that indicates the two, while separate, are connected....part of a process if you must. An illustration: remember the wedding couple...if you were to ask someone to marry you, and commit to them, and then come to them and say" I just don't think it is necessary to have the public wedding, or to let anyone else know we are married." What does that say about the understanding of the life long commitment of marriage? It might be reasonable to question if that person really meant it when they said they wanted to be married.
Again it is fearful as a parent or friend to hear someone say they do not want to be baptized, yet they consider themselves to be a Christian. Everything in the Scripture indicates it is the end of what Jesus did for you (saved you) and the beginning of what you will do for Him (live your life for him).
Remember as you study Scripture you must see who it was written to, when it was written, and what was the purpose of the writing.
Interesting ideas from today's lesson:
- Jesus did not baptize anyone
- Jesus was baptized
- Jesus took two common Jewish ideas, Communion from the Passover feast, and Baptism from the conversion ceremony to Judaism and gave them New Testament applications.
- We are connected to all other Christians throughout all time in these two actions we share in. All of us who have been believers have shared in Communion, and Baptism.
- This is not an problem for anyone who is a believer and has been baptized
- The unchurched see us fight about this topic and it is repulsive to them.
Jesus saves us...and asks us to commit to Him publicly through baptism, our only part in salvation is asking for it...our part in living out the Christian life is enormous.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. - Matthew 28:19
I hope this has been challenging and helpful as you seek answers. God is not afraid of our questions. I reserve the right to change my opinion as the Holy Spirit instructs me and I grow. :) Mark
2 comments:
The one point I wanted to make, is that the theif on the cross couldn't have been baptized the way we are baptized now. Now, I believe, we are baptized in a way to represent dying and being buried like Christ, (going into the water = immersion) and Christ raising from the dead (up from the water). We must die to our old selves (in the water) and become new people in Christ (out of the water). So, the theif couldn't have been baptized because Christ hadn't died yet. So, is it really an accurate arguement to use him as an example to somehow lessen the importance of baptism? And I may be rusty on things, but is there anywhere in the new testament after Christ died that someone did not get baptized after professing to follow Jesus? They seem rather urgent about it...if a person confessed, they went right to being baptized. Why wouldn't a person, confessing to follow Jesus, be baptized, if the Bible puts such a strong emphasis on it? Also, I may need to go back to the old text of things, but when the Bible says repent and be baptized, are we talking water baptism or baptized in the Holy Spirit? Anyway...I'll do some more poking around, but I just wanted to put my two cents in :-P
I LOVE talking about stuff like this. Good for the mind. Good to do it among Christians first before running off at the mouth with non-believers.
First off, great class content. Things like this should be discussed...always in a loving, Christlike way of course, but we should know what we believe and why.
Second, baptism is a mandate from scripture. Even if one does not see the importantance (say Christ came into your life and years later are confronted with baptism, your Church just does not do immersion, etc.), the Bible clearly says to do it, so we should do it. And baptism being a transliteration, we should be able to agree that it was intended as immersion. I agree with the previous comment...as the Christian Church can in some instances lean towards baptism being absolutely essential for salvation, I wonder why we wait until Sunday to baptize in those Churches...what if that person died before baptism!? Biblically I do not see any examples of waiting for a big gathering, whatever. I am not saying it has to be immediate, but that would be closer to the Biblical example for those that believe in that way.
Third, the thief is a valid example. Why? Long story, but let me (try to) summarize: God did not change the way to Heaven from OT to NT...it has always been through faith in Christ. In the OT Christ was not yet seen, but the faith given by God was there. Hebrews 11 talks about many from the OT that had that faith. Christ is the only way to God (John 14:6)...so those that are in Heaven from the OT, were they baptized in the NT sense?
Ultimately, one can argue but there are many verses that point to belief/faith that brings us to Christ, (John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6;47, Acts 13:48, I John 5:13, and many, many more)and baptism comes as a natural reaction from that with knowing and studying the Scriptures.
People can say they do not have to be baptized in the same way some also say you do not have to go to Church to be a Christian. Strictly speaking that is true...but ignores the teaching of Scripture at the same time that would stress to the highest importance each.
I could go on...but probably should not. I pray we all would be open to listen to others, stand on the Word, and focus our energy on reaching outside ourselves to those that still need to know Christ loves them.
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